Ok fair enough...get an HD Nighttrain! Or a BMW K1300s.

I'll have to say this about all the engineering I've seen working for GM and now Isuzu. Germans are the smartest, but the Japanese work the longest, but they are not as intelligent as the Americans when it comes to intelligent design. They can, however, manufacturer stuff to a T and repeat it with little flaw. Americans are intelligent, but they get seriously hampered by cost reduction.

I've worked with Bosch and Siemens on a few fuel control and diagnostic controls projects. They have their shit down and they work hard.

Not to mention lazy???? :whistle:

Matt's neighbor rides a HD from the 70's.... it runs just fine. But I still wouldnt buy one.....

:rockwoot:

See I told y'all - resistance is futile... :rofl:

I don't necessarily think Americans are lazy moreso than just bored at work. Japanese can be just as lazy or bored if you will, esp. the office workers.

No Doubt... I spent half of last night research'n them... read'n up... and of course look'n at aftermarket stuff :lol:

no... I think what killed Detroit long ago but they've been too stubborn to let go is the Unions. people getting paid $40/hr for a job that should EARN no more than $20/hr.

They drove the prices up... and because their work ethic sucked why pay attention to quality of work. the result is the Domestic market's reputation for sub par vehicles that last (with a few exceptions) about half as long as the Imported counterparts.

Gas... you may be right... the Ford/GM/Christler/HD 09's may all be VERY VERY much better than the 01's... even the 05's... but I still think they're behind the power curve with the imports... namely the Japanese.

You know it. This is the guy I used to ride with all the time. He's really the only guy I rode with. I say rode b/c he's been in West Chester PA for college for the last few years.

I am getting a GS of some variety. Looking for a 05 1150 or maybe a new 800. I need to find one of each for the wife to try out which is comfortable for her to ride with me. I would rather the 800, but I want her to take trips with me. It's still possible to rail a BMW. I have seen it done.

I wouldn't say Americans are more intelligent than the Asians, I would say they are more (I don't know if innovative is the right word I am looking for, maybe creative) creative. I would say the average Asian engineer is much more detail focused than average American engineer.

As for Jap cars reliability going down in comparison to American cars reliability on the rise. I don't think that's true because more and more Jap cars are actually being built HERE and not in Japan. I would say it's just more of our own incompetence and the japanese cars are losing their reliability because of us instead of the american cars increasing in reliability.

Quote of the day!!! :lol


I think that sums it up for the comparo. I love VWs and would be one of the only overseas cars I would consider buying. Well that or a Mazda being most of them are build a mile from my house and mostly owned by Fords.

Take notice I have not knocked the rice anything besides the fact that I think they copy the ideas of HDs and not as fast many of the hd's. But you won't hear me knock their realiability. Hondas are die hard and suz/kaws/yams try to copy.


I can agree with you on the unions. I have many union buds that work at the big 3 and their suppliers. But understand this... its not the workers or even the unions that have drove these car companies into the ground. Its the miss management by corperate.

And very much so on the vast improvement. My 04 F150 was HUGE HUGE better than my previous ones. But the 09 are even more huge of improvements. It is crazy how much better the american cars are now. I could not believe how quiet the 09 Malibu is inside. I'm talking what I percieve as lincoln/cadillac quiet. I do disagree on the power curve. When the malibu as an example is getting 169hp from a inline 4, I would say american cars are on par EASY!

Finally (at least for this post), Trip... the BDM while uglier than hell will probably be a fine piece of german. I can't wait to see it. Hopefully you'll have it by July!

Me too, I want to have the cbr ready to go next week for the auction block. Hopefully it will sell fast and I can start seriously looking for the BMW.

Gas, There maybe some miss management (I hate what GM's bean counters do to their product), But how do you manage expenses when you have to much capacity and you can't reduce it because the Unions won't let them?
And how do you fault a company for building product that's selling well in those plants, even if you know you're more susceptible to say an unexpected spike in gas prices.