It's not a question of if you're going to hit it, but HOW you're going to hit it.

Sideways, or head first.

Pick one.

JC

I don't like your options, how about 35mph without a bike or 5 mph with one?


I undertand what you're saying amj, fully.

But! You will always stop faster while one the bike on the brakes, as opposed to sliding on your ass.


I've looped a bike at 60mph and slid and rolled at least 75 to 100 feet. I could have stopped using my brakes in 1/4 of that.


The bike would have slid much further, but it got stopped by some trees.

Notice I looped my bike..

I didn't say the front wheel was in the air, and I had no choice but to let go..


I fucked up, and I was the cause. I didn't let go to remain in control, I let go because I was out of control and beyond my skill level.

Not to be contentious but in April of 05 I was presented with Hit the back of the car that just entered my lane or take the bike down. I was riding a 03 Victory Touring Cruiser (which has very good Brembo Brakes) I documented what happened in a thread asking about what went through you mind when you crashed thread that is here on this board some where.
I will tell you that there was very little thought in what I did it was was instinctive move after the other. Please feel free to look it up. I think "Laying a Bike down" Has more to do with instinctive survival at no time did I mentally list everything I was going to do I fought in every way I could to ride out of the crisis but the was a fraction of a second when I knew that was going to happen and from there it wa about damage control.

There is no way to prove it, but I am an experienced enough and skilled enough racer and street rider that "laying the bike down" is 98% of the time a panick braking maneuver gone wrong and the rider either tucks the front or loses the back. Then they tell all their buddies "I had to lay 'er down. No choice" Laying a 400+ pound bike on the pavement at any mph vs. trying to use the brakes and/or avoidance maneuvers being called "survival instinct" is bullshit. Plain and simple

My "off" was not an intentional lay down, I actually high sided myself off the bike before it hit the truck. I was braking like mad and I wasn't slowing down. Finally the rear end slid out to the right, threw me off the the bike then landed on it's right side. Funny thing is, I was only going 36mph.

If you can bring your bike to a full stop from 60 mph, in 25 feet or less, I want to know who makes your brakes. :lol: MotoGP bikes can't even do that while going through gravel traps.

In an "Oh Fuck" situation, I would think it's safe to assume that you're already on the brakes. When you figure out that you're still going to impact an obstacle at an unhealthy speed, laying it down may be a better option than going in head first.

I've only done it twice, in 35 years of riding, but it's there, in my "tool kit", if I need it. I'm not saying it's going to "save" you, rather, it just makes the best out of a bad situation.

JC

I get that. And I had a similar VERY low speed highside once. But that is NOT what is being talked about.

Let me approach this a different way. If you have the presence of mind to know there is NO way you can stop and have the time to comtemplate throwing your bike to the pavement and taking your chances with sliding, and still not knowing how much impact is coming, why not just take the impact and jump off the bike forward just as it impacts thereby throwing you over the object. Just like on tv. Makes about as much sense huh?

And Rider this response was not directed at you. "You" being the guys who talk about intentionally putting the bike down.

And most people who think it's all about locking up the rear and performing a fashionable Hollywood "hockey stop" have no clue about how fast they could stop using proper threshhold braking instead. And besides that, why would you want to slide under a vehicle or guardrail, breaking a few ribs and possibly getting run over or drawn and quartered by the guardrail? I'll keep myself upright and brake in a straight line, thank you very much, because it will always stop faster than a lowside/hockey stop/laydown/whatever you want to call it.

Of course you would pick the numbers I picked from my head to counter the argument. Of course those numbers were approximations, I wasn't looking at the speedo when I looped, nor did I use a micrometre to measure the exact distance I slid. I made the assumption that you would get that from my nice round numbers that had a "25" foot variable thrown in.

All I'm gonna say is, I've never seen a pro in a race "have" to lay it down. Nor have I ever heard of anybody leaping from their car to lessen their impact.

If you have to choose between going off of a cliff or laying it down, you absolutely positively have more control being on the brakes and steering. As opposed to being thrown around/rolling/sliding with your skin acting as the brakes. Tires have much much more grip than tissue and blood.