In FL, from OH... plenty of turns there... I miss it terribly. *sniff*

The MSF course is low speed. You use their little 125s and 250s for it.

The road test here is a little more practical. Basically proving you are road worthy, less doing circles in two parking spots.

I wouldn't dismiss the importance of the low speed stuff. Riding fast on a bike in normal situations (not track or twisties) is retard easy. The bike does all the work and you just hold on. The low speed shit is where the important stuff takes place, like throttle and clutch manipulation, balance, looking where you want to go, and so on are where the skill takes place. The low speed skills will translate up.

Not dismissing it, but just saying that the test is bullshit. Pass or fail, doesn't necessarily indicate competency, especially considering different rigs. You roll up on a 9ft chopper and you're next to a guy on a 125cc dual sport... you are certainly not going to have as easy of a time with the course as that guy... It's like having to parallel park a dump truck, vs a economy car... both drivers could be equally skilled, but one guy showed up with the wrong tool.

And yes the MSF course is low speed, but it's also instructional. To get my license, I literally had to weave some cones, turn around in two parking spots, and stop in a box. Ridiculously easy... I do like what FL's doing... you get your license after the MSF course... so you are at least exposed to proper riding techniques.

I got my license down here in Florida through the MSF course prior to them really pushing the MSF course to new riders. I've seen some of the people who've taken the road test as opposed to the MSF course and wouldn't trust them on a moped, let alone any bike. They know enough to pass the road test, but have damn near no knowledge of defensive riding, accident avoidance, or reacting to an emergency situation. Not saying MSF make someone a fucking awesome rider, but they seem to be mildly less dangerous and slightly more prepared than someone who just went to pass a road test.

You should show up on the bike you are going to ride. If the guy can't navigate his 9 ton piece of shit, tough shit, get a bike you can ride.

Problem with MSF is, no experience in traffic. It's quite ludicrous that people are allowed to ride on the street after that little instruction.

Finally, an answer to the original question that makes sense, not that the others didn't. I have enjoyed the way this thread has come and gone down different avenues.

Amen! :dthumb:

I agree with your points here and after.

And on the point that most HDs are more well maintained. True again. 2 reasons, price paid for bike. Also, most that can afford a HD can afford to take care of it, further, are usually more "grown up".

Thank you.

Again, if you ride a big bike, you better damn sure be able to manhandle it. If you can't pass a simple test on that big bike, you shouldn't be riding it.

I completely disagree with the more grown up comment. If anything they are just as fucking retarded or more so, just in a different way. They may not go around doing triple digits, but a lot of them are more than willing to ride around after a few beers. I would label that extremely less "grown up" than speeding.