Break in period
 

How many of you followed the manufacturer's recommended break in period?

Why did you or did you not follow it?

I sort of follow it. I stay off the highway to avoid constant revs, I don't rev the bike in neutral, and I keep it under the redline. Other than that, I pretty much break it in the way I'm going to ride it.

I took it straight to the track. if it's going to break, I'd rather it still be under warranty.

Just kidding. I've never owned a new vehicle including bikes.

I followed the break-in period for both my new bikes. You'll hear all kinds of arguments from both sides about which is better. In the end, I decided the people that designed and built it know better than anyone else and I've never had any problems.

That's not to say if I took it to the track right away I would have had problems.

You might be better off asking what tires are best for street riding. :lol:

I have always followed the break-in periods even for the newly redone engine on my Harley. Why? I don't want to anger the gods, what does it hurt to do it anyway, and perhaps I am too weak minded to deviate from the expected norm. That's three reasons.

I tried... Really I did... It was just too boring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My process for a new bike is: Don't lug it, don't rev the piss out of it and don't hold a steady RPM for miles on end. Change the oil and filter at 500 miles and again at a 1000 and call it done.

I've never owned a brand new bike. So it doesn't apply as far as that goes. Wife bought a new car last year. We went semi-easy on it for 1000 miles. A few hard accelerations here and there. Didn't baby it.

Honda's break in on the 07 600rr was "vary speed." That was it. That was all the instructions it gives you for break in. So I varied speed.

I did the typical break in on the SV, but I was also a new rider so I wasn't pushing it hard the first 600.

I rode them normally. After a few hundred miles I'd stretch their legs and take it up close to redline.

My SV is the first and only new bike I've ever owned. I followed the break-in instructions in the manual (they weren't all that difficult and I burned through the mileage requirement in the first week).

I broke mine in by the book.
Since I didn't ride for a year, getting on a 170hp missle and just cranking it would be nuts, so I kept it under 5500rpm for the first 1000kms.
That is still 114hp, so it is not like it was slow or anything.

I don't remember my break in period but I know I tried to follow the recommendations. :idk:

I always go slow now. I think that mototune or whatever it's called hard breakin method is BS. An engineer friend was talking about it last weekend and he said all their data was based on lawnmower motors.

The previous owner of my husky broke it in hard and the motor was worn out very quickly--I rebuilt it and broke it in soft and the difference is very noticeable. I'm hardly getting any junk on the drain plug even with ~70% of the miles that the last motor lasted in total.

The owners manual is dumb......They are more concerned about parents suing them due to kids over-riding their ability than they are about product longevity.

The factory already tests the engines before shipping them, and I can assure you they rev them above the limits specified in the ghey owners manual.

Here is what I do:

1) Don't sit around "warming it up" for more than 30 seconds.....Your engine wants to work, not sit around idling.
2) Ride around gently for the first 15 minutes, before putting significant loads on it.
3) Once it has warmed up, start doing a lot of acceleration & engine braking runs.....Not WOT to redline like the "Mototune" article recommends, but more than the ghey owners manual allows.
4) Don't cruise at one RPM........that's bad for break-in.
5) Don't lug the motor (let the motor drop to 2K and then try and accelerate.....it's bad for it)
6) Your first few trips should be at least 20-30 minutes, and after each trip you should park it and let it cool down overnight......Not just an hour or two.
7) Change the oil after the first 100 miles.

here is the mototune website, fwiw.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I've read that site before. I'm not sure beating the piss out of your engine is the way to go either.

You need to heat cycle the motor until the metals harden. Beating the piss out of it might give more power right off the bat but it's gonna last half as long.

I've argued this a thousand times and I still stand by that link. It's way closer to what you should be doing than what's in the manual.

NO! YOU'RE WRONG!



(I honestly don't know but someone had to do it :lol:)

I did what most do, kinda follow the recommendations. I rode it like normal but made sure it was hill country riding, no constant RPM's went through all the gears, never red lined and changed the oil at 500 miles, after that it was at the track before it had 1000 miles on it and at over 11,000 so far it still runs perfectly.

Not looking to recreate an old debate, but if beating the piss out of a new motor were the way to go, why would manufacturers have a break-in period versus saying "here's your new bike, go ride it"?

Turn the key.

Break in period over.

JC

I used this on the TLR and the CBR (when rebuilt)

Simple:

1) They don't know/don't care which method is best -- they simply chose the one that is less likely to break something and cause warranty claims.

2) They know that a large % of bike purchases are newbies, and they want to avoid the lawsuits & bad publicity caused by new riders riding too fast too soon and crashing.

I'm the same way. I dont beat the piss out of it. I dont rev it too high for the first 1k. But I will give it some go go juice. Just no WOT.

Oh and NO NO NO lugging.

Don't they run all their engines to redline upon assembly?

I keep my vehicles a long time so I follow the manufacturers recommendation.

I stay mostly within the guidelines. Im no engineer or tested bike manufacturer, so I'd rather follow their advice than what someone tells me or I read on the internet. I am highly suspect of anyone that tells me to completely ignore my owners manual and do it their way.

Pussy.

JC

why are you calling him a pussy?
You have had your bike 1993 years longer than him.

I'm with AMJ...I hit Redline within the first 50 Miles of owning the ZX6...I cant find the website right now but there was a guy who wrote up a story on how driving cars/bikes harder than the "break in " period allows for actually makes the engines withstand more as far as abuse goes...and I've heard that some newer cars will make more power based on the ECU and it knowing how often you go WOT and whatnot.

Personally...I think break in periods are stupid...But thats just my opinion.

Exactly. From another post on another site...

net-net: owners manual=crap

#1 they break em in on the dyno before it leaves the factory #2 you want to cut the rings like you are going to ride the bike

I didn't break my buell in stupid hard. But, I redlined the first 3 gears the first time I took it out.

I took it home, let it cool down. Ran it through a few more heat cycles and then changed the oil.

There was a bit of metal on the drain plug, that was it. And I've run it normally since.
In about 15000 miles the only issues I've had were from cheap components and sensors. Nothing internal has gone wrong.

Keep in mind, I'm of the same train of thought as redrider, when we rebuild or fix a diesel. Its gets run to idle, gets a quick look over and then its run flat out for hours.

Don't you dyno it?

I've got a buddy who's lead over at Cummins atlantic, and if I'm not mistaken, he's told me when he rebuilds he "takes it straight to the dyno and runs the ever-livin-shit out of it, cause if it's gonna break, I want it to break right THERE so I can fix it and not on the road for a customer"

While I'm not a full on diesel mechanic. They just teach us the ins and outs in case one of our generators breaks at sea. That is exactly what we do. Hook it up to the inertial dyno, start it, check over the basics, then run the piss out of it.

Before we rebuilt our engine. We had to get a baseline dyno run. Our engine upon pre-overhaul run up seized up #1 cylinder and #4 was close. All because the oil jets for the skirt cooling were plugged.

We replaced those power packs (piston, liner, rings and wrist pin) reassembled it, then put it back on the dyno and ran the piss out of it. Keeping in mind though, that every single component was gone over with a micrometer/dial gauge/feeler gauge to make sure it was fully in spec.

It didn't have a single problem except for loose wires on the starter that sparked a good bit initially.

Do you guys think there is a difference between a new engine /gearbox and rebuilding an engine that all the other hundreds of parts are already run in?
There are hundreds of friction points in a new engine/gearbox that are lapping in besides the cylinder walls, piston skirts and rings in a new motorcycle engine/gearbox that are not at all a concern when rebuilding a used unit. I worry more about gear tooth faces, dog surface and bearing run in, than the ring to wall seal. With the rings and the cylinder finish used these days, unless something was screwed up when it was built, the ring/wall seal in a done deal almost as soon as you start the engine. After rebuilding an engine, a couple of heat cycles to shape the piston is about it. All the rest is already done.

Every thing I've touched is honed and within spec from the factory. If it isn't, it goes back. So, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.


If it's within spec, it will fit. If it's a faulty component, it's going to break regardless of break in. So, what benefit is there to babying it?




I wish I had my "transmission of power" notes kicking around. I can't seem to think of the manufacturing process used in gear design. Burnishing, lapping, hobbing, whatever the heck it is costs a lot and is far more accurate and is commonly used in engine applications.

Ultimately, the only time I've seen catastrophic engine failure has been because of maintainer error.

Edited to add: Most times spun bearings are caused by lack of lubrication. Crank bearings and cam bearing are made out of babbit for a reason, to allow particle embedding to the bearing and not the major components as well as to allow the bearing to wear instead of the expensive parts. And crucial components such as cams usually have bearings matched to them to precise tolerances. The ones we use, if you ding the cam or bearings, you replace everythign as a set. And to do that, we have to send the block away to have new cam bearings pressed in.
These components cost more initially for a reason, they're made to more precise tolerances using more expensive manufacturing processes.

This is what my piston looked like after 2000 miles with a hard breakin:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...lly/piston.jpg

Who knows whether that was due to the break-in, or questionable British quality control

Yup, those Italian manufacturers all employ British quality control agents.

So this was the Husky, not your Triumph? My bad.......but the Italians aren't really known for quality either. :lol: Also, you said it had a previous owner......What else might he have done to it besides a hard break-in?

I agree with the 'break it in with hard throttle, but gentle/repeated heat cycling' line of thought - and an oil change after the first few miles, not 600~1000.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Explain how scoring on the thrust side of the piston would be caused by hard break in?

Likely causes, no cooling to the bottom of the piston, the piston rings had the gap close to each other, or fuel dilution of your oil. Unless that piston is coated, it looks like there is a ton of soot on top. Which leads me to think fuel dilution.

I'm far from an expert. Just falling KISS logic.

Edit: Where's the top ring? Were the rings installed upside down? Or in the wrong position?

the difference in power on any bike is going to be negligible based solely on break in.

Yes, please do.

That's either an assembly error, manufacturing error, or the person doing this "Hard break in" didnt know the difference between "Break in" and "Abuse".

No, not really. All those friction points you speak of are either replaced with new or measured to make sure they're within Spec. You dont toss on a new set of rings and call it "Rebuilt". I'm talking front to back, top to bottom, EVERYTHING gets stripped down and gone over with a micrometer.

Sorry, but you can't automatically chalk that up to a "hard" break in. Any number of things could have caused that damage.

My DR650 thumper was broken in to spec, and the fucker hand-grenaded the bottom end at 16K miles, (I'm pretty sure the shift fork was the culprit). So, what does that prove? Nothing. If shit's gonna break, then shit's gonna break.

I wouldn't rev the ever loving piss out of a brand new engine, but after the first oil change (100 miles), all bets are off.

JC

Not understanding the logic here.....Why would a first-gear blast produce "less load" than, say, a second-gear blast? Just because it's shorter? But the accelerative forces are higher in 1st gear, so you would think that would produce more load.

I've been drinking, so bare with me slice.

The amount of power produced doesn't change. You can manipulate that with gearing, but the forces being applied to the gears should always be the same.

Power out equals power in. First law of thermo.

Since I can't edit on my phone..

I can however see the forces acting for a longer duration on the piston at higher revs since the same amount of force is being applied over a longer distance/time.

Power produced would be the same I agree, but the G-forces are higher in 1st.... after all it is easier to loop a bike in 1st than 2nd or 3rd. So I would think it would put more load on the bearings. But I don't know shit about physics.

Damn this thread is long. I forgot I posted it on Thursday/Friday before going away.

I figured this would be a questionable subject but I thought I'd take my chances on the answers.

I know what you mean. I rode mine per break-in home from the dealer. Hubby asked why I was going so slow (not even the speed limit of 55mph). I told him I was following break-in... so after that he told me to at least go the speed limit.

That is kind of my thought, but at the same time I couldn't not do the speed limit for 1000 miles or whatever break-in suggested.

:iagree:

I meant at higher gears .

Where did you quote that from? I'm not sure I agree with it but anyway...

The reason there is less load on the engine in 1st is because the gear reduction in 1st gear makes it easier to drive the bike forward and reach redline. In higher gears the ratio is not so much in your favor and it takes more work. It's pretty much the same reason that if you have a worn clutch, it's most likely to slip in high gear.

One question for everyone that likes to hit red-line before the first oil change: are you not worried about metal shavings cycling through the engine with the oil? Isn't that one of the main reasons for low RPM's at first, to cycle the oil at a slower rate, increasing the chances metal will stay at the bottom of the oil pan?
Simplest way to understand this - assuming you've ridden a mountain bike or multi-speed bike. Put your pedal bike in 1st gear and sprint to your maximum speed. You should reach your maximum speed quickly and with little effort.

Now do it again in a middle gear... it'll take a lot more effort to get to that max speed (load to an engine), not just time.

If you're a glutton for punishment, put it in its top gear now (10th, 18th, 24th, whatever) and repeat. Have water handy and be ready for your quads to scream at you. :lol:

For a given amount of air & fuel introduced (throttle), a motor will produce the same output & the internals "see" the same thermal & mechanical stresses, regardless of which gear it's in - it's only the reaction (acceleration) which varies. (edit: assuming it's not 'free' revving)

So which oil should I use for break-in?.... :lol:

From Castor Troy's quote



Eh....I think the reason most people experience clutch slip only in the higher gears is because those are the only gears they go WOT in......They're too pussy to go WOT in first :lol:

I was just assuming that 1st puts the most stress because it has to overcome momentum from a dead stop. You know how when someone needs a push start, and a bunch of guys start pusing on the car until it starts moving? Well, it's hard as hell to get it moving, but once it's moving, it's pretty damn easy.

I never said it was a cause -> effect relationship, I'm simply showing my personal experience. The guy who did the rebuild listed a number of factors, but I do know the previous owner put it on a dyno straight out of the box. The new top end has hardly coughed up anything.

It's my guess that most people doing a "hard breakin" don't know the difference either, including the guy who had my Husky.

wot in 1st is asking for a 12o'clock on my bike :lol:

WOT and low load redline are complete opposites you can low load redline any bike in 1st without fear of a wheelie....takes what seems to be forever to get there, bcause you're cracking the throttle just above idle to GET there, but it's how I've seen a few engines "broke in" after rebuild...especially 2-strokes :idk:

On a bike this is pretty much true but that's how you test a slipping clutch in anything.