Beginner's Advice Pt. II

[Rider]

I'm only doing cosmetic mods to my bike right now. It has more power stock than I could ever use on the street. Sure ,I could spend a couple grand in bolt on mods, but the only thing that will get me is more speeding tickets. I may eventually start small with a BMC filter and some velocity stacks, then maybe a PCIII down the road. Full exhaust sytems are claiming 14rwhp gains... I dont need that........yet.

[Phenix_Rider]

Originally Posted by Trip

Especially in the suspension dept. A properly tuned suspension is one of the best performance mods for comfort and ridability of the bike and is very beneficial to a noobs confidence when riding the bike. Riding a bike setup for a 150 lbs person when you are 250+ lbs is not fun or will give you much confidence in your handling.

Everything I've read says that unless you're content to have a pro set it once and leave it that way, fiddling with suspension is only going to make things worse. Makes sense to me. If you're blaming the suspension for the rear/front end getting loose, or the back coming up too fast on the brakes, or your feet/ pegs grinding, you're not paying attention to body position, grip strength, or how much weight you have on the bars.

I'm sure Lee Parks, Nick Ianetsche, and all the others each said it their own way: "upgrade the software before the hardware." Meaning, a new rider simply doesn't know enough to deal with the basic inputs he's getting. He needs to bank more to the experience account before he spends the little he has on dealing with new hardware.

That said, most of the good beginner bikes have non-adjustable (or very limited adjustment) suspension. I can see upgrading it after a few track days, or a lot of street miles, but it's just not an immediate mod. Plus, a proper suspension upgrade is worth a lot more than a shiny exhaust right off the showroom floor.

It wouldn't take terribly much money to get a good suspension either. (less than an exhaust and hugger and fender eliminator) As a quick example, I can throw a Penske rear shock on my 650R for $750, and Racetech springs and emulators for $220. The 650R retails for $6,499, while the ZX6R is $9,099. A $2,500 difference. A 650 will never be in the same class as a SuperSport 600, no matter what you do to it.

[DLIT]

Originally Posted by Rider

I'm only doing cosmetic mods to my bike right now. It has more power stock than I could ever use on the street. Sure ,I could spend a couple grand in bolt on mods, but the only thing that will get me is more speeding tickets. I may eventually start small with a BMC filter and some velocity stacks, then maybe a PCIII down the road. Full exhaust sytems are claiming 14rwhp gains... I dont need that........yet.

I don't understand the concept of velocity stacks.

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by Phenix_Rider

But I'm beginning to understand why some riders have such an elitist view. When I hear of someone that got outrun on the freeway, or outlaunched by a bike making twice the torque in town, so they have to get a "better bike to save face."

Right. And, the guys at one of my last trackdays learned the hard way it has nothing to do with the equipment they all *upgraded* to when they were all passed by a couple 11-year-olds on 80cc motards. Adults *sigh*

Then there are the HUGE guys on Busas that want to get different wheels because they are 10lbs less. How about take 10lbs off your wide butt first - much cheaper and makes you more healthy in the long run!!

[Phenix_Rider]

Originally Posted by azoomm

Right. And, the guys at one of my last trackdays learned the hard way it has nothing to do with the equipment they all *upgraded* to when they were all passed by a couple 11-year-olds on 80cc motards. Adults *sigh*

Then there are the HUGE guys on Busas that want to get different wheels because they are 10lbs less. How about take 10lbs off your wide butt first - much cheaper and makes you more healthy in the long run!!

at 11yo motards and "wide butts."

I agree- forget about carbon fiber wheels and titanium fasteners, if a rider carries an extra 10 lbs, that's several hundred/thousand dollars in weight savings if he can lose it.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Phenix_Rider

Everything I've read says that unless you're content to have a pro set it once and leave it that way, fiddling with suspension is only going to make things worse. Makes sense to me. If you're blaming the suspension for the rear/front end getting loose, or the back coming up too fast on the brakes, or your feet/ pegs grinding, you're not paying attention to body position, grip strength, or how much weight you have on the bars.

I'm sure Lee Parks, Nick Ianetsche, and all the others each said it their own way: "upgrade the software before the hardware." Meaning, a new rider simply doesn't know enough to deal with the basic inputs he's getting. He needs to bank more to the experience account before he spends the little he has on dealing with new hardware.

That said, most of the good beginner bikes have non-adjustable (or very limited adjustment) suspension. I can see upgrading it after a few track days, or a lot of street miles, but it's just not an immediate mod. Plus, a proper suspension upgrade is worth a lot more than a shiny exhaust right off the showroom floor.

It wouldn't take terribly much money to get a good suspension either. (less than an exhaust and hugger and fender eliminator) As a quick example, I can throw a Penske rear shock on my 650R for $750, and Racetech springs and emulators for $220. The 650R retails for $6,499, while the ZX6R is $9,099. A $2,500 difference. A 650 will never be in the same class as a SuperSport 600, no matter what you do to it.

Seriously, get your piece of shit suspension upgraded after you go to the track once with it bottoming the fuck out even when you are in the perfect stance and then when you actually have a decent ride at the track come back and tell me that suspension shouldn't be on the same level as having tires good enough for track use. Riding track is a lot different than fucking off on the street. Having a suspension that is not suitable for you can be just as dangerous as having questionable tires. Not everyone weighs anywhere close to the stock setup and some people need to adjust their suspension immediately before they set rubber on the track. Having hardware that is suitable for track use is very much important to developing the software to ride track.

[DLIT]

Having your suspension tuned is one of those things that you didn't realize how bad you needed it until you got it tuned. Same goes with a lot of things on bikes. You didn't realize you needed it until you actualy swap it out or tune it up.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by DLIT

Having your suspension tuned is one of those things that you didn't realize how bad you needed it until you got it tuned. Same goes with a lot of things on bikes. You didn't realize you needed it until you actualy swap it out or tune it up.

Yep, the only people that seem to promote the don't waste your money on suspension immediately idea is the people that have never had suspension setup.

Out of all the money I spent on the SV, pilot powers and everything, putting in the suspension and getting it tuned was the very best thing I ever did to it. It made the bike so much more rideable.

[Rider]

Originally Posted by DLIT

Having your suspension tuned is one of those things that you didn't realize how bad you needed it until you got it tuned. Same goes with a lot of things on bikes. You didn't realize you needed it until you actualy swap it out or tune it up.

I tuned my own to the setting recommended in Sport Rider magazine. Seems to be pretty sweet. The only thing I didn't do was change the amount of fork tube showing above the triple clamp. SR recommends 10mm. stock is about 4mm and I left it alone. It turns in fast enough. Oh and I left the rear spring preload alone. I dont have the tool to change that and I don't want to fuck it up using the flat head screw driver method I did on my dirt bike.


And to answer you question about velocity stacks, it smooths out the air going in to the intake. See pic below.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_stack

[OneSickPsycho]

Originally Posted by Phenix_Rider

Everything I've read says that unless you're content to have a pro set it once and leave it that way, fiddling with suspension is only going to make things worse. Makes sense to me. If you're blaming the suspension for the rear/front end getting loose, or the back coming up too fast on the brakes, or your feet/ pegs grinding, you're not paying attention to body position, grip strength, or how much weight you have on the bars.

I'm sure Lee Parks, Nick Ianetsche, and all the others each said it their own way: "upgrade the software before the hardware." Meaning, a new rider simply doesn't know enough to deal with the basic inputs he's getting. He needs to bank more to the experience account before he spends the little he has on dealing with new hardware.

That said, most of the good beginner bikes have non-adjustable (or very limited adjustment) suspension. I can see upgrading it after a few track days, or a lot of street miles, but it's just not an immediate mod. Plus, a proper suspension upgrade is worth a lot more than a shiny exhaust right off the showroom floor.

It wouldn't take terribly much money to get a good suspension either. (less than an exhaust and hugger and fender eliminator) As a quick example, I can throw a Penske rear shock on my 650R for $750, and Racetech springs and emulators for $220. The 650R retails for $6,499, while the ZX6R is $9,099. A $2,500 difference. A 650 will never be in the same class as a SuperSport 600, no matter what you do to it.

There is a balance between retuning your suspension and buying Ohlins shit. Well sorta... Everyone needs their suspension tuned and most everyone will never need Ohlins shit.