Passing at the track

[tached1000rr]

good thread Kell, and good responses in here

[shmike]

Originally Posted by The Awesome

I understand holding novice riders back from passing in corners. The issue I have is organizations that allow passing in corners, but only on the outside. There is certainly nothing wrong with passing on the outside, but opportunities to do it are few and far between compared to a traditional inside maneuver, so new riders should start working on that very early on. If riders were better at passing across the board, track days would be much less frustrating. Having your first opportunity to pass traditionally come when you are grouped in advanced with a bunch of racers and seasoned track riders is a bad situation. Not only will you have trouble filtering through traffic, but you will be unprepared for the maneuvers that faster riders will be putting on you.

Which is a nice segue into...



From the perspective of a faster amateur rider, I do NOT want a slow rider to try to help me pass them. As I approach a slower rider, I already know exactly what I am going to do to get around them when I get there. When riders alter their line, look behind and slow down, or do anything else that is unpredictable, it changes the situation from a calculated maneuver to an educated guess. Educated guesses can end badly if one or both of the riders guess wrong. Some of the closest calls I ever had were scenarios exactly like this.

When slower riders do this, it's often because the faster rider caught them in a spot they personally find difficult/impossible to pass in, therefore they have no idea what the faster rider is about to do to get around them. To execute the pass, the faster rider is counting on the slower one to maintain a predictable race line. If the slower rider becomes aware of the presence of the faster rider and tries to "give up" to allow the faster rider by, they can easily create a collision scenario.

The best thing a slow rider can do for everyone else on the track is to ignore what's behind them and ride in a predictable and controlled manner.

100% Agreement.

At our local trackdays it is absolutely not allowed in Novice. Azoom explained the reasons why.

While I agree that the outside pass is overly burdensome, that is somewhat on purpose. It places the burden squarely on the passer. If he goes in too hot and stands the bike up, he doesn't collect the bike he tried to pass. Same thing with a washed front end.

How many times have you seen ricky racer with more balls then brains shoot way hot into a turn, brake all the way to the edge of the track, pull a u-turn and rocket to the next missed entry point? Him having to pass on the outside helps protect the riders trying to learn the proper line.

We frown upon passing on the inside in Intermediate but there is room to fudge the rules based on the situation. If you out brake someone into the turn, odds are it is on the inside. We ask that riders get the move done before turning in.

Obviously if you have a multi-turn complex, there may be an inside pass made but we'd prefer you wait until the next straight.

Like Mr. Awesome said please DO NOT try to "help out" the faster riders. They will get by. It is safer for all involved to hold your line and look forward. If I saw you going off-line and looking back, we'd have chat on hot-pit.

[smileyman]

Originally Posted by Trip

I am glad there is no passing rules for fiddy racing. Kicking, punching, wrecking, headbutting, running over are all acceptable forms of passing.

Oh...like in Canadian Superbike?

[fasternyou929]

Originally Posted by shmike

If I saw you going off-line and looking back, we'd have chat on hot-pit.

What org are you CRing for?

Still need to get you up here for for an event. NESBA just added 3 dates over the Halloween weekend at Road Atlanta, would you be able to make it? I ride A with them so we'd be in the same group and could turn some laps together. At least until you learned the track.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by smileyman

Oh...like in Canadian Superbike?

If we didn't have helmets there could be possibly some biting incidents. It's no holds barred and it rocks.

This is why I dislike track days, it's too regulated.

[shmike]

Originally Posted by fasternyou929

What org are you CRing for?

Still need to get you up here for for an event. NESBA just added 3 dates over the Halloween weekend at Road Atlanta, would you be able to make it? I ride A with them so we'd be in the same group and could turn some laps together. At least until you learned the track.

www.FloridaTrackdays.com mostly. But I'll ride for whomever asks as long as it gets me in the gate.

Let me know when you are doing Road A.

I think I am going to try out the endurance thing at the CCS ROC this year so as long as the weekends don't coincide I'll make it a point to be there.

[shmike]

Originally Posted by Trip

If we didn't have helmets there could be possibly some biting incidents. It's no holds barred and it rocks.

This is why I dislike track days, it's too regulated.

I had my first track suit get ripped when I got run over racing 50's with SEMRA.

The guy behind me was on a TTR 125 and his peg hit me in the shoulder as I face-planted in the dirt section.

I could lose him on the asphalt but he always caught me in the dirt. I think that kid ran over me like 3 times that weekend.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by shmike

I had my first track suit get ripped when I got run over racing 50's with SEMRA.

The guy behind me was on a TTR 125 and his peg hit me in the shoulder as I face-planted in the dirt section.

I could lose him on the asphalt but he always caught me in the dirt. I think that kid ran over me like 3 times that weekend.

lol nice, I love those things. You can race 150% without any fear whatsoever.

[tommymac]

Originally Posted by azoomm

That someone shouldn't have to be "courteous." Sean, you know better

Passing is hinky in most inexperienced groups to begin with. Passing on the inside simply encourages people to act on their impatience. Stalk, learn how predictable that person is, then pass where you can do it safely. This is what we practice.

Thats more or less what I do, intermediate can be a free for all with the difference in speeds and throw in a few knuckleheads. I would catch up to soem guys and if theyre consistent I know where I can get around them. I know my lines are not 100% perfect but am rathe rclose and am prety consistent so guys can get around me easily.

[CrazyKell]

Originally Posted by Captain Morgan

She's questioning my reasoning for looking behind me and waving people by on my trackday this weekend. Here's the full story, if you haven't seen it in the other thread.

I was on the V-strom on the track. It was sportbiketracktime. If any of you have ever ridden any of their events, you know they have classroom instruction for beginners and then they take the beginners out in groups of 4 or 5 riders with an instructor. I didn't want to ride in a group of people like that and wanted to ride my own pace. The only way to do that was in intermediate. I was the slowest person in the group, by far, simply because of the bike I was on. I scraped peg numerous times and the back end got loose a few times. I was also running the stock "Death Wings" on the bike. I simply couldn't go much faster without losing it.

I am fully aware that it's the passing rider's responsibility to pass safely and I maintained a consistent line on the track to allow them to do so. However, out of courtesy for the other riders on the track, I would look behind me in certain stretches where it was safe to do so, and I would move off the line so they could pass.

Is there really something wrong with being courteous to other riders that have paid good money for a track day and want to push it to the limit and not be held up by a guy riding a much slower bike?

ETA: I did consider dropping down to the beginner group after the first session in intermediate, but was told I was doing fine and it was ok to stay where I was.

I wasn't ripping on you. I was just curious as to your reasoning and that got me thinking that maybe different things are allowed with different organizations. It was nothing more than curiosity.

But like others have said, it's not the safest practice.

It does concern me that you think their money is somehow worth more than yours. Everyone paid to be out there. If the organizers thought you grossly unsafe they would move you to a more appropriate group.

I pay my money the same as the fast guys. I hold my line and am very predictable on the track. It is their responsibility to get around me safely; not my responsibility to let them get their money's worth.

Oh and as a complete aside, I saw a v strom at my last track day and that guy was booking it. Looks like a super fun ride!