weapon for concealed carry

[Mr Lefty]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

And here is my fucking problem in a nut shell!!! You just said EXACTLY what I believe but you put it so much better than I have...damn! I agree that everyone has a right to carry,with above provisos,I just don't understand why everyone NEEDS to.

I don't either... but doesn't mean they shouldn't... I'd much rather have people out there who carry with no need... than a completely unarmed country... save the criminals

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Adeptus_Minor

Well, you really should take the time to look it up.
You seem to be of the rather idealistic opinion that if you keep to your own business and look the other way and just lie down for armed assailants that they'll just take what they want and go away.

Do these sorts of things happen all the time? No.
Have they ever happened to me? No.
But it can happen, it does happen, and if and when it happens to me or someone I care about, I want them to have the ability to choose whether or not they are a helpless victim or if they can at least try to do something about it.

In a perfect world, or if we're simply lucky enough, none of us will ever see a situation where having a gun means the difference between whether we live or die. But we all know this isn't a perfect world and as I have not yet won the lottery, I don't think I can count on my luck forever.

And it's a little silly to play that "Oh, I guess I don't have the right to disagree" card around here.
Of course you have the right to disagree.
However, your disagreement is based upon an idealized view of human interaction where all conflict can be resolved by avoidance and deescalation.
There's nothing wrong with that and if everyone tried to go that route first, we'd have a lot less violence in general. Unfortunately, in some situations, you are faced with an individual who has neither the ability nor inclination to see reason. It is in those hopefully rare and isolated instances that those who choose to carry hope to prevail where others would just end up another sad statistic.

My disagreement is predicated on a lifetime spent in some pretty rough areas and not needing to carry a gun. BTW my statement about not being allowed to disagree stems from the neo-attacks I keep getting like that I "lie down for assailants" or that I have an "idealistic" (read stupid) viewpoint/opinion of the world. I've seen everything you all are talking about. I've seen people shot,stabbed,beaten,robbed,raped,killed. I've had to fight and I've had to shoot a couple people (as a civilian). I've also been stabbed,shot,attacked,etc. I'm not idealistic,nor am I stupid. I agree with Amorok that I don't know you all and I'm sure that some of you have been in dangerous situations,not of your doing,that carrying a hand gun saved/could have saved you. I understand that,I truly do. I am merely saying that if you live in suburb in Idaho,I don't see why you need to have a 45 tucked in your jacket at all times given that you already have a gun in your car and in you house,that's all.

[BobTheBiker]

Personally, I dont percieve my desire to carry as a NEED, but its more of something I WOULD LIKE to do.

You guys REALLY get into it when you debate dont ya? at least its interesting conversation and I'm actually enjoying seeing where you stand.

[Mr Lefty]

Originally Posted by BobTheBiker

Personally, I dont percieve my desire to carry as a NEED, but its more of something I WOULD LIKE to do.

You guys REALLY get into it when you debate dont ya? at least its interesting conversation and I'm actually enjoying seeing where you stand.

any debate that Tigger joins in you'll know will be a long one

[Adeptus_Minor]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

My disagreement is predicated on a lifetime spent in some pretty rough areas and not needing to carry a gun. BTW my statement about not being allowed to disagree stems from the neo-attacks I keep getting like that I "lie down for assailants" or that I have an "idealistic" (read stupid) viewpoint/opinion of the world. I've seen everything you all are talking about. I've seen people shot,stabbed,beaten,robbed,raped,killed. I've had to fight and I've had to shoot a couple people (as a civilian). I've also been stabbed,shot,attacked,etc. I'm not idealistic,nor am I stupid. I agree with Amorok that I don't know you all and I'm sure that some of you have been in dangerous situations,not of your doing,that carrying a hand gun saved/could have saved you. I understand that,I truly do. I am merely saying that if you live in suburb in Idaho,I don't see why you need to have a 45 tucked in your jacket at all times given that you already have a gun in your car and in you house,that's all.

I'll give you a nod on all that. I'm sure you've been through some shit.
I am calling you neither stupid nor a coward.
What I'm asking you to acknowledge is that you don't always get to choose where and when senseless violence comes your way.
When something happens to you away from home, you don't have the chance to run home and get your gun.
Location in the US really has nothing to do with the likelihood of some sort of violent atrocity happening. The illusion of safety in the suburbs or small towns is why things are so much worse when the unthinkable does happen.
That's why those who want to be prepared should be allowed to do so.

[HokieDNA01]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Okay,so what did you do? I mean this is the heart of my argument. What did you do to stop the situation? Did you go out there and try to break it up? I'd imagine that you do have weapons in your house of some kind,why didn't you go out there and stop that guy from beating her up? I would have. What would have been different had you had a CCW? You all realize that a CCW isn't a "go out and play amateur policeman" license,right?

I don't own guns to save others. They are to protect myself. And no as a female I'm not going to go charge outside at 4am to throw myself into a fight. That is why I called the police. My ONLY point was that if you do have someone threaten your life, don't expect any one to save you except your self. That is why I would choose to carry.

[HRCNICK11]

Its not a cops job to protect you. Their job is to file the report so the courts can punish the bad guy after the fact. I work in large factorys they are horrible hoods I'm getting a CCW because I can. Laws don't stop criminals if they did we would not need to worry about them.

Meet me at the Detroit American axle plant. About dusk after I have worked 12 hours in the plant and we will see if you ask if I have my weapon on me. I bet you will. For the record they had one month were they averaged 4 cars a day stolen out of the parking lot. I don't get a choice where my work sends me when I'm on call. I do have a choice if I'm armed.

[Cutty72]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

And here is my fucking problem in a nut shell!!! You just said EXACTLY what I believe but you put it so much better than I have...damn! I agree that everyone has a right to carry,with above provisos,I just don't understand why everyone NEEDS to.

People NEED to carry concealed for the same reason you NEED to ride a motorcycle.
It a personal choice that makes people feel better/safer/more individual/etc.

In all honesty, me having my CCW will be more helpful in me having a pistol when I get a chance to do some target practice than anything else, but I don't care. Hell, I live in ND... I know all 15 people that live in the state, and 10 of 'em are related

I honestly doubt that I would ever pull a weapon on someone (in a civilian atmosphere) too much to deal with between military and civilian law...
Until I get back from deployment at least, then I can claim PTSD

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by HRCNICK11

Its not a cops job to protect you. Their job is to file the report so the courts can punish the bad guy after the fact. I work in large factorys they are horrible hoods I'm getting a CCW because I can. Laws don't stop criminals if they did we would not need to worry about them.

Meet me at the Detroit American axle plant. About dusk after I have worked 12 hours in the plant and we will see if you ask if I have my weapon on me. I bet you will. For the record they had one month were they averaged 4 cars a day stolen out of the parking lot. I don't get a choice where my work sends me when I'm on call. I do have a choice if I'm armed.

Um...see you're doing to me what I kinda did to Amorok...I think at least one of my Uncles worked at that plant and my Grandma's house is on Charlevoix(sp) and Hurbert...deep,deep in the hood.As in half of the houses have been burned down and there are always at least two cars on blocks. I'm pretty sure I've also been to that plant and worked on the "Doorboy" guillotine doors there. I've lived just outside of L.A.,in the bad part of Gary,Ind,Off of Dyer st in El Paso,Tx, on the West Side ,the S.E. side and right off Division st in Grand Rapids,Mi.,heck I've even lived in D.C. just off of 12th st. You can't school me in the hood bro,I've spent most off my life in it. Shit,it's probably people that are related to me stealing those cars you're talking about! Seriously.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Cutty72

People NEED to carry concealed for the same reason you NEED to ride a motorcycle.
It a personal choice that makes people feel better/safer/more individual/etc.

In all honesty, me having my CCW will be more helpful in me having a pistol when I get a chance to do some target practice than anything else, but I don't care. Hell, I live in ND... I know all 15 people that live in the state, and 10 of 'em are related

I honestly doubt that I would ever pull a weapon on someone (in a civilian atmosphere) too much to deal with between military and civilian law...
Until I get back from deployment at least, then I can claim PTSD

"PTSD" Good one! Whatever,they'll have your ass sucking cocks and breaking rocks at in Leavenworth with that lame ass defense!