Leaning versus Knee Down - Page 3

zed · 03-23-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azoomm

That makes baby Jesus cry.

there was no houses there at the time. seems that someone tried to build a subdivision and lost backing or interest, don't know but there was no houses in the area. the only traffic was other people looking for a place to practice some corners and a few cops that would run you off once in a while. we never could find the place on Disney to ride.

buzzcutt2 · 03-23-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zed

there was no houses there at the time. seems that someone tried to build a subdivision and lost backing or interest, don't know but there was no houses in the area. the only traffic was other people looking for a place to practice some corners and a few cops that would run you off once in a while. we never could find the place on Disney to ride.

Is that the place in Sebring?

zed · 03-23-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzcutt2

Is that the place in Sebring?

no, south east of Haines City. if you have google earth I can send you the file that will locate it for you.

buzzcutt2 · 03-23-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zed

no, south east of Haines City. if you have google earth I can send you the file that will locate it for you.

After some digging...I found it, thanks though.

Might have to take a trip up that way.

zed · 03-23-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzcutt2

After some digging...I found it, thanks though.

Might have to take a trip up that way.

there are a few places that could be used for a "track" in that same area, think 3. there used to be an older woman that lived out there that would call the police so if you have after market exhaust you may not get much time before they show up. they are streets with signs and stop signs so they could ticket you but all they ever did was run us off.

ceo012384 · 03-24-2009, 11:26 AM

From a physics point of view, there is no argument that the full hang-off position is superior.

However, every rider and bike is different... a position that makes you comfortable and able to be smooth and controlled in your inputs is the best for you.

Note that guys like Doohan and them were riding absolute BEASTS of a bike... big 500cc two strokes that they needed to wrestle around just to keep them going in the right direction. That is the cause for why in that age they all rode crossed up.

Nowadays, if you wanted to win motoGP races, you couldn't do it with that body position, the guys hanging off like Spies and Stoner and Rossi would be able to carry more corner speed than you.

anthonyk · 03-24-2009, 05:34 PM

Check out pics of Mat Mladin for an example of a modern (badass) racer whose style is pretty much crossed up.

Mr Lefty · 03-24-2009, 05:36 PM

Mladin has been around a while though too.

The Awesome · 03-24-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceo012384

From a physics point of view, there is no argument that the full hang-off position is superior.

This is not necessarily true in real world application. There is much more to factor in beyond center of gravity of the bike/rider combination. You have to factor in traction, the section of track you're on, the chassis of the motorcycle and how it responds to input, sight limitations, control limitations, transition speed, and so on. The "ideal rider pose" only considers one small slice out of the big picture that ultimately determines lap time. Riders that try to force themselves into a preconceived pose are limiting themselves. Fast riders use their bodies in a limitless number of ways based on an equally limitless number of factors. If we agree that "superior" means the fastest lap time, then no, there is no such thing as a single superior body position, because they all have limitations. The faster rider will be the one that chooses his riding style based on the circumstances that exist from moment to moment. Staying as close to the limit as possible requires constant adaptation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceo012384

Nowadays, if you wanted to win motoGP races, you couldn't do it with that body position

This is your current World Superbike champion, and he has also won in MotoGP.

So yes, it is possible to ride at the highest levels of the sport with an unorthodox riding style.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceo012384

the guys hanging off like Spies and Stoner and Rossi

If you watch Rossi, he does not hang off the bike much in most situations. His movements are very efficient and minimalist. Being arguably the greatest rider in history, it shows that a bunch of monkeying around on the bike is not necessary, and at times is detrimental to achieving the greatest results.

No Worries · 03-25-2009, 01:59 AM

The twisty roads I ride on are much different than a track. Half the corners are blind, they are much sharper and steeper than a track, and there's no run-off. It's not prudent to go around a blind, mountain curve at full speed.

If there is sand in the corner, you have to stay in a tire track. Sure you can go faster if you cross over to the other track, but it's dangerous. Slow in and fast out.

I love to blast out of corners. It's a lot safer when you can see what's up ahead. Of course, throttle control is super important when leaned over. But if I am leaned way off the bike with my upper body, the bike itself is more leaned upright. That means I can get on the throttle sooner. It works for me. I've tested it hundreds of times. Both uphill and downhill.

Plus, there are several quick esses where I have a quarter second (or less) to lean from fully left to fully right and back again. I can move my upper body and head that fast. But I wouldn't be able to shift my butt around the seat, move my knee in on one side, move it out on the other, un-weigh a peg, or any of that stuff that can be done on a track. Anyway, most of these curves are to tight to be taken fast. And that's why I only move my upper body.

03-24-2009, 11:26 AM	#26
ceo012384 Pompous Prick Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: MA Moto: 06 R6 (race), 04 CRF Tard (race) Posts: 3,040	From a physics point of view, there is no argument that the full hang-off position is superior. However, every rider and bike is different... a position that makes you comfortable and able to be smooth and controlled in your inputs is the best for you. Note that guys like Doohan and them were riding absolute BEASTS of a bike... big 500cc two strokes that they needed to wrestle around just to keep them going in the right direction. That is the cause for why in that age they all rode crossed up. Nowadays, if you wanted to win motoGP races, you couldn't do it with that body position, the guys hanging off like Spies and Stoner and Rossi would be able to carry more corner speed than you. __________________ LRRS/CCS #123 Boston Moto Dunlop Woodcraft 35 Motorsports Sidi Pit Bull K&N Filters

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03-24-2009, 05:34 PM	#27
anthonyk WERA White Plate Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Austin, TX Moto: '01 Aprilia Falco Posts: 1,041	Check out pics of Mat Mladin for an example of a modern (badass) racer whose style is pretty much crossed up.

03-24-2009, 05:36 PM	#28
Mr Lefty TWFix Legend Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Denver CO Moto: 01 BMW F650GS Dakar Posts: 15,677	Mladin has been around a while though too.

03-25-2009, 01:59 AM	#30
No Worries Keyboard Racer Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mile High City Moto: Old Superbikes Posts: 1,016	The twisty roads I ride on are much different than a track. Half the corners are blind, they are much sharper and steeper than a track, and there's no run-off. It's not prudent to go around a blind, mountain curve at full speed. If there is sand in the corner, you have to stay in a tire track. Sure you can go faster if you cross over to the other track, but it's dangerous. Slow in and fast out. I love to blast out of corners. It's a lot safer when you can see what's up ahead. Of course, throttle control is super important when leaned over. But if I am leaned way off the bike with my upper body, the bike itself is more leaned upright. That means I can get on the throttle sooner. It works for me. I've tested it hundreds of times. Both uphill and downhill. Plus, there are several quick esses where I have a quarter second (or less) to lean from fully left to fully right and back again. I can move my upper body and head that fast. But I wouldn't be able to shift my butt around the seat, move my knee in on one side, move it out on the other, un-weigh a peg, or any of that stuff that can be done on a track. Anyway, most of these curves are to tight to be taken fast. And that's why I only move my upper body.