Both Blinkers blink when i turn on a turn signal - Page 5

Papa_Complex · 02-22-2011, 12:17 AM

Not much detail there, but it looks like what I would suggest.

Kerry_129 · 02-22-2011, 12:27 AM

Those 'load resistors' in addition to whatever is in there already might drop voltage TOO much & dim the ones you do want flashing.

Edit: Those are fairly low resistance/high-wattage & intended to be wired in parallel (between the hot & ground), vs. in series (inline, like the resistor(s) already in the LED circuit which I'm suggesting to increase). They're generally used to slow down the fast-flash, but will also maybe be the simplest way to correct your issue without monkeying much with the existing wiring or trying to figure out resistance values.

Full Throttle · 02-22-2011, 12:59 AM

Yea im not to confident in messing with electrical stuff. I have no problem splicing a resistor in but i dont want to do much more than something that simple.

I did install a 12v under the back seat and a switch under my seat to turn it on and off with. that was rather simple though. just hooked it right up to the battery then the switch then to the outlet and finally grounded it to the frame.

Papa_Complex · 02-22-2011, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Throttle

Yea im not to confident in messing with electrical stuff. I have no problem splicing a resistor in but i dont want to do much more than something that simple.

I did install a 12v under the back seat and a switch under my seat to turn it on and off with. that was rather simple though. just hooked it right up to the battery then the switch then to the outlet and finally grounded it to the frame.

From the way it's behaving, I'm guessing that the LEDs you installed in the rear don't already have an inline resistor. If you have LED signals in the front, were they commercial bulb replacements?

If you didn't put an inline fuse on the line to that power outlet, I would highly recommend doing so. You can pick one up, pretty easily, at any auto parts store. You can get them with a rubber boot, to prevent corrosion.

Also, if you put in those inline resistors, make sure that they don't contact any plastic. They can get pretty hot, depending upon how much current those LEDs are drawing.

Full Throttle · 02-22-2011, 02:19 PM

So i should get something like this instead?

And yea the Front ones are commercial. The ones you always see in the parts section of the Motorcycle shop.

Something like this

Kerry_129 · 02-22-2011, 02:49 PM

I believe LEDs must have a resistor wired in series to operate in a 12V system, because full system voltage (~14V) will simply fry them otherwise. The commercial ones typically have the LEDs & resistors mounted together on a little circuit board. The 'prewired' singles have a little one soldered directly to the led leads & usually covered w/ shrink-tubing. The way those are nestled into the peg bracket, I'm gonna guess that they're not the 'prewired' variety, but instead have a single one somewhere in the wire running to the bracket.

I do think the best way to fix it would be to add a little resistor in series (in-line on each + wire), not those big resistors in parallel (branching from the + wire to ground). They're like sticking little heaters in your wiring harness - gotta worry about what they're near, and it's just an 'ugly' solution, IMO.

I know all this babbling is making it sound more complicated than it really is - hell, if you were closer to Nashville I'd say just bring it on over & I'd help you square it away.

Edit: Oh - and a BIG plus-one on adding an inline fuse to the power outlet. Attach one lead to the batt, and the outlet to the other, so the circuit is protected closest to the source.

Papa_Complex · 02-22-2011, 02:32 PM

You should get something like the item pictured, in order to add a fuse between the battery and your 12V power outlet, that you stated you had added under the seat with a switch. Make sure that the positive 12V is the side with the fuse. If you've never seen an automotive batter discharge directly to ground then trust me, it isn't something that you want going on directly under your ass, while riding.

Commercial lights are generally already balanced, with resistors etc., to work properly in a pre-existing circuit. If you hacked the LED light strip together yourself, then you are definitely missing the appropriate in-line resistor. Add the ones that you linked and you should be good to go.

Papa_Complex · 02-22-2011, 03:24 PM

Actually that big-assed resistor is meant to be in series with the LEDs, not parallel.

Kerry_129 · 02-22-2011, 04:16 PM

I must respectfully disagree. If it were in series, it wouldn't need to be nearly the size (power/wattage capacity), since it would only be passing a few milliamps. 'Load' resistors are way lower resistance (3~6 ohm) than a series resistor would need to be, and intended to wire 'across' (in parallel with) the LED to basically simulate the high current-draw of a normal bulb.

This one is 3-ohm, 50 watt:

http://www.v-leds.com/BlinkerWarning...79822-1-3.html

Here's a cool little calculator I found: http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=zz.led...lator#parallel

Plug in 14V, 2V drop across led (lower than I thought), and 20ma for a single LED = 600-ohm, 1/2-watt (with safety-factor) required. For 6 similar LED's in parallel: 100-ohm, 3-watt

Shit - I really need to get back to this mess I'm procrastinating on fixing @ the day-job!

Kerry_129 · 02-23-2011, 10:44 PM

Yabbbut, although that will fix the fast-flash issue, it has nothing to do with his problem - the other side lighting dimly when one side is flashing. I started to mention installing one of those after seeing the fast-flash on the video, but figured why confuse things further...

I agree TOTALLY on using a 'no load' relay (also called 'towing' or 'electronic' - common @ every parts stores is the Tridon EL13) vs. wiring in those damn 'load' resistors (high-wattage, in parallel). They're a crude solution to the fast-flashing caused by swapping to low-current LEDs, more expensive, not avail. at any parts-store, etc. - don't like 'em.- only advantage is you generally don't have to remove the upper fairing to install (big deal).

But again - that's unrelated to the problem. What he most likely needs is just a pair of these http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062295 (or of a resistance around there) wired in-line (series) on each rear signal wire.

PS: Many 'engineers' do truly suck at the practical application of, well... anything practical (worked with/for several of them)!

But the good ones sweat the details to the Nth-degree, consider how technical theory actually works in the real world, and seek what works best (and many of that sort don't have a formal degree). They're generally the ones who figured out & designed/refined the bikes, the LEDs, the flashers, the computer you're reading this on, etc, etc.....

02-22-2011, 12:17 AM	#1
Papa_Complex Nomadic Tribesman Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Brampton, Canada Moto: '09 ER-6n Posts: 11,150	Not much detail there, but it looks like what I would suggest. __________________ "Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge, "Dorkness Rising" http://www.morallyambiguous.net/

02-22-2011, 12:27 AM	#2
Kerry_129 Semi-reformed Squid Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 531	Those 'load resistors' in addition to whatever is in there already might drop voltage TOO much & dim the ones you do want flashing. Edit: Those are fairly low resistance/high-wattage & intended to be wired in parallel (between the hot & ground), vs. in series (inline, like the resistor(s) already in the LED circuit which I'm suggesting to increase). They're generally used to slow down the fast-flash, but will also maybe be the simplest way to correct your issue without monkeying much with the existing wiring or trying to figure out resistance values. Last edited by Kerry_129; 02-22-2011 at 12:40 AM..

02-22-2011, 12:59 AM	#3
Full Throttle ~Italian Stallion~ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: North West Georgia Moto: 2000 Yamaha YZF-R6 Posts: 446	Yea im not to confident in messing with electrical stuff. I have no problem splicing a resistor in but i dont want to do much more than something that simple. I did install a 12v under the back seat and a switch under my seat to turn it on and off with. that was rather simple though. just hooked it right up to the battery then the switch then to the outlet and finally grounded it to the frame. __________________

02-22-2011, 02:19 PM	#5
Full Throttle ~Italian Stallion~ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: North West Georgia Moto: 2000 Yamaha YZF-R6 Posts: 446	So i should get something like this instead? And yea the Front ones are commercial. The ones you always see in the parts section of the Motorcycle shop. Something like this __________________

02-22-2011, 02:49 PM	#6
Kerry_129 Semi-reformed Squid Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 531	I believe LEDs must have a resistor wired in series to operate in a 12V system, because full system voltage (~14V) will simply fry them otherwise. The commercial ones typically have the LEDs & resistors mounted together on a little circuit board. The 'prewired' singles have a little one soldered directly to the led leads & usually covered w/ shrink-tubing. The way those are nestled into the peg bracket, I'm gonna guess that they're not the 'prewired' variety, but instead have a single one somewhere in the wire running to the bracket. I do think the best way to fix it would be to add a little resistor in series (in-line on each + wire), not those big resistors in parallel (branching from the + wire to ground). They're like sticking little heaters in your wiring harness - gotta worry about what they're near, and it's just an 'ugly' solution, IMO. I know all this babbling is making it sound more complicated than it really is - hell, if you were closer to Nashville I'd say just bring it on over & I'd help you square it away. Edit: Oh - and a BIG plus-one on adding an inline fuse to the power outlet. Attach one lead to the batt, and the outlet to the other, so the circuit is protected closest to the source. Last edited by Kerry_129; 02-22-2011 at 02:54 PM..

02-22-2011, 02:32 PM	#7
Papa_Complex Nomadic Tribesman Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Brampton, Canada Moto: '09 ER-6n Posts: 11,150	You should get something like the item pictured, in order to add a fuse between the battery and your 12V power outlet, that you stated you had added under the seat with a switch. Make sure that the positive 12V is the side with the fuse. If you've never seen an automotive batter discharge directly to ground then trust me, it isn't something that you want going on directly under your ass, while riding. Commercial lights are generally already balanced, with resistors etc., to work properly in a pre-existing circuit. If you hacked the LED light strip together yourself, then you are definitely missing the appropriate in-line resistor. Add the ones that you linked and you should be good to go. __________________ "Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge, "Dorkness Rising" http://www.morallyambiguous.net/

02-22-2011, 03:24 PM	#8
Papa_Complex Nomadic Tribesman Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Brampton, Canada Moto: '09 ER-6n Posts: 11,150	Actually that big-assed resistor is meant to be in series with the LEDs, not parallel. __________________ "Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge, "Dorkness Rising" http://www.morallyambiguous.net/

02-22-2011, 04:16 PM	#9
Kerry_129 Semi-reformed Squid Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 531	I must respectfully disagree. If it were in series, it wouldn't need to be nearly the size (power/wattage capacity), since it would only be passing a few milliamps. 'Load' resistors are way lower resistance (3~6 ohm) than a series resistor would need to be, and intended to wire 'across' (in parallel with) the LED to basically simulate the high current-draw of a normal bulb. This one is 3-ohm, 50 watt: http://www.v-leds.com/BlinkerWarning...79822-1-3.html Here's a cool little calculator I found: http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=zz.led...lator#parallel Plug in 14V, 2V drop across led (lower than I thought), and 20ma for a single LED = 600-ohm, 1/2-watt (with safety-factor) required. For 6 similar LED's in parallel: 100-ohm, 3-watt Shit - I really need to get back to this mess I'm procrastinating on fixing @ the day-job! Last edited by Kerry_129; 02-22-2011 at 04:18 PM..

02-23-2011, 10:44 PM	#10
Kerry_129 Semi-reformed Squid Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 531	Yabbbut, although that will fix the fast-flash issue, it has nothing to do with his problem - the other side lighting dimly when one side is flashing. I started to mention installing one of those after seeing the fast-flash on the video, but figured why confuse things further... I agree TOTALLY on using a 'no load' relay (also called 'towing' or 'electronic' - common @ every parts stores is the Tridon EL13) vs. wiring in those damn 'load' resistors (high-wattage, in parallel). They're a crude solution to the fast-flashing caused by swapping to low-current LEDs, more expensive, not avail. at any parts-store, etc. - don't like 'em.- only advantage is you generally don't have to remove the upper fairing to install (big deal). But again - that's unrelated to the problem. What he most likely needs is just a pair of these http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062295 (or of a resistance around there) wired in-line (series) on each rear signal wire. PS: Many 'engineers' do truly suck at the practical application of, well... anything practical (worked with/for several of them)! But the good ones sweat the details to the Nth-degree, consider how technical theory actually works in the real world, and seek what works best (and many of that sort don't have a formal degree). They're generally the ones who figured out & designed/refined the bikes, the LEDs, the flashers, the computer you're reading this on, etc, etc.....