How would you go about laying your bike down?

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

If you can bring your bike to a full stop from 60 mph, in 25 feet or less, I want to know who makes your brakes. MotoGP bikes can't even do that while going through gravel traps.

In an "Oh Fuck" situation, I would think it's safe to assume that you're already on the brakes. When you figure out that you're still going to impact an obstacle at an unhealthy speed, laying it down may be a better option than going in head first.

I've only done it twice, in 35 years of riding, but it's there, in my "tool kit", if I need it. I'm not saying it's going to "save" you, rather, it just makes the best out of a bad situation.

JC

Of course you would pick the numbers I picked from my head to counter the argument. Of course those numbers were approximations, I wasn't looking at the speedo when I looped, nor did I use a micrometre to measure the exact distance I slid. I made the assumption that you would get that from my nice round numbers that had a "25" foot variable thrown in.

All I'm gonna say is, I've never seen a pro in a race "have" to lay it down. Nor have I ever heard of anybody leaping from their car to lessen their impact.

If you have to choose between going off of a cliff or laying it down, you absolutely positively have more control being on the brakes and steering. As opposed to being thrown around/rolling/sliding with your skin acting as the brakes. Tires have much much more grip than tissue and blood.

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by Tmall

Of course you would pick the numbers I picked from my head to counter the argument. Of course those numbers were approximations, I wasn't looking at the speedo when I looped, nor did I use a micrometre to measure the exact distance I slid. I made the assumption that you would get that from my nice round numbers that had a "25" foot variable thrown in.

I'm just surprised you didn't use meters instead of feet.

Originally Posted by Tmall

All I'm gonna say is, I've never seen a pro in a race "have" to lay it down. Nor have I ever heard of anybody leaping from their car to lessen their impact.

Race tracks don't generally have Dump Trucks parked sideways in the corners.

Originally Posted by Tmall

If you have to choose between going off of a cliff or laying it down, you absolutely positively have more control being on the brakes and steering. As opposed to being thrown around/rolling/sliding with your skin acting as the brakes. Tires have much much more grip than tissue and blood.

Once again, it's not a substitute for braking and maneuvering, it's a fall back option for when braking and maneuvering aren't working.

Ok, a question for all of you. You're headed for the edge of a cliff at Mach 10, and you have a catastrophic brake failure. Let's say you blew a line, and grabbed a big hand full of nothing. Rare? Sure. Impossible? No.

What's the plan?

JC

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

I'm just surprised you didn't use meters instead of feet.



Race tracks don't generally have Dump Trucks parked sideways in the corners.



Once again, it's not a substitute for braking and maneuvering, it's a fall back option for when braking and maneuvering aren't working.

Ok, a question for all of you. You're headed for the edge of a cliff at Mach 10, and you have a catastrophic brake failure. Let's say you blew a line, and grabbed a big hand full of nothing. Rare? Sure. Impossible? No.

What's the plan?

JC

Your scenario is irrelevant..

You're trying to comparing the rolling friction of the wheels, to the sliding friction of your skin to the sliding friction of rubber.

Obviously if you have no brakes, you want to be as far away from the heavy thing on two rollers with bearings to cut the friction.

In your scenario, you're fucked either way.

But, ultimatlely I would likely downshift to use engine braking to slow down as much as I could. Maybe even lock up the rear by downshifting to first.

[Speedracer42]

Originally Posted by Tmall

Your scenario is irrelevant..

You're trying to comparing the rolling friction of the wheels, to the sliding friction of your skin to the sliding friction of rubber.

Obviously if you have no brakes, you want to be as far away from the heavy thing on two rollers with bearings to cut the friction.

In your scenario, you're fucked either way.

But, ultimatlely I would likely downshift to use engine braking to slow down as much as I could. Maybe even lock up the rear by downshifting to first.

Agreed. The scenario is irrelevent. If you have catastrphic brake failure how will you dump the bike? You've got to slow it down anyway you can then bail. THAT is not what has been discussed. It was talk of abandoning a perfectly good cycle for your chances on the pavement.

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by Speedracer42

Agreed. The scenario is irrelevent. If you have catastrphic brake failure how will you dump the bike? You've got to slow it down anyway you can then bail. THAT is not what has been discussed. It was talk of abandoning a perfectly good cycle for your chances on the pavement.

So in other words, you have no plan.

How do you dump the bike? Tuck the front end. It's faster with brakes, but it will still fall over without them.

JC

[askmrjesus]

From the online DMV manual:

"When faced with a potentially dangerous situation, it's generally best to remain upright on your bike. Remember, tire rubber has an immense amount of traction. However, plastic, steel, and chrome (the materials found on the side of the bike) offer almost no traction. When you stay on your motorcycle instead of letting it slide, you'll be better able to stop in time or swerve out of the way. The only possible time where it might be a better idea to purposely end up on the ground is when it's better than the alternative, like going over a guardrail down a cliff or into the middle of a ten-car pile-up. Once you lay down a bike, you have absolutely no control over where you will end up."

This is pretty much what I've been saying all along.

JC

[karl_1052]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

From the online DMV manual:

"When faced with a potentially dangerous situation, it's generally best to remain upright on your bike. Remember, tire rubber has an immense amount of traction. However, plastic, steel, and chrome (the materials found on the side of the bike) offer almost no traction. When you stay on your motorcycle instead of letting it slide, you'll be better able to stop in time or swerve out of the way. The only possible time where it might be a better idea to purposely end up on the ground is when it's better than the alternative, like going over a guardrail down a cliff or into the middle of a ten-car pile-up. Once you lay down a bike, you have absolutely no control over where you will end up."

This is pretty much what I've been saying all along.

JC

You didn't just quote the DMV on anything related to knowledge, did you?
The same DMV that will issue licences to 98 year olds who drive through crowded markets killing people? Yeah, I would trust their safety knowledge.

BTW, that quote was probably written before disc brakes were invented.

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by Tmall

Your scenario is irrelevant..

You're trying to comparing the rolling friction of the wheels, to the sliding friction of your skin to the sliding friction of rubber.

Obviously if you have no brakes, you want to be as far away from the heavy thing on two rollers with bearings to cut the friction.

In your scenario, you're fucked either way.

But, ultimatlely I would likely downshift to use engine braking to slow down as much as I could. Maybe even lock up the rear by downshifting to first.

Ok, so now you're heading over the cliff at Mach 5, instead of Mach 10.

Let me break this down further. Over the side of the cliff, is a 1000 foot drop, into a pool of sharks with laser beams. Do you "hope" you stop in time, or do you lowside into the guard rail?

Yes, you're fucked either way. The question is: How fucked?

JC

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

Ok, so now you're heading over the cliff at Mach 5, instead of Mach 10.

Let me break this down further. Over the side of the cliff, is a 1000 foot drop, into a pool of sharks with laser beams. Do you "hope" you stop in time, or do you lowside into the guard rail?

Yes, you're fucked either way. The question is: How fucked?

JC

I'll play..


you come to a field of razor blades at mach 15, you think laying down a motorcycle is a good option because you used to do it on your antiquated drum braked garbage 20 years ago, do you hop off or hit the brakes?

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

Ok, so now you're heading over the cliff at Mach 5, instead of Mach 10.

Let me break this down further. Over the side of the cliff, is a 1000 foot drop, into a pool of sharks with laser beams. Do you "hope" you stop in time, or do you lowside into the guard rail?

Yes, you're fucked either way. The question is: How fucked?

JC

In most cases you will still fly over the bike if you lay it down. I've seen it happen 3 or 4 times unless you get wedged under the bike. But then, the guardrail may slice you up (I've seen that too).